First Contact 2014
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Eric Hummer
- Intermediate
- Posts: 0
- Joined: Sun Sep 08, 2013 9:30 pm
[quote=Iqsaan;31920]Hi Eric,
There is no shame in getting stuck or having a pop out ... The important thing is to realise your error and to learn from it ... We are all here to learn and are always learning no matter how skilled we are ... Remember it is better to get stuck than to be overpowered and launch your vehicle off a dune or rollover .
Safe driving![/quote]
Thanks Iqsaan....I would certainly keep that in mind :like:... and definitely learn from mistakes....
There is no shame in getting stuck or having a pop out ... The important thing is to realise your error and to learn from it ... We are all here to learn and are always learning no matter how skilled we are ... Remember it is better to get stuck than to be overpowered and launch your vehicle off a dune or rollover .
Safe driving![/quote]
Thanks Iqsaan....I would certainly keep that in mind :like:... and definitely learn from mistakes....
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Desert Lizard
- Golden Member
- Posts: 0
- Joined: Tue Dec 27, 2011 9:43 pm
This is a response to OxanaLu post earlier, which I think is a very good reflection of actual experience and how we can learn from it, good job and please keep sharing for everyone's benefit. My response is addressed to everyone as well.
[quote=OxanaLu;31921]
Lesson 4. "The radio device situated in my car to inform the convoy members about troubles with my car and to keep me updated about all the situations outside of my car"
One of us got stuck, he didn't inform the Marshals immediately and couldn't inform us later because of the radio signal not being able to go through the high dunes and the distance between us. His car wasn't with us for at least 20 min and no-one had even realized it until the very last moment before he appeared again during break. Honestly speaking, I wouldn't like to be in his place.
Once you get stuck, immediately inform!
Once you lose the car behind you, immediately inform!
Once you see danger on the track or close to it, immediately inform!
[/quote]
Informing the marshals of any distress immediatly is the number one task when in distress, it saves everyone a lot of trouble, and this should not be forgotten or overlooked.
Now, in case that we take into account that the radio signal was blocked by the dunes, then there was no way that the stranded driver could relay his message to the rest. This could happen and Almost4x4 convoy system covers this eventuality. Please remember the breifing:" If you can't see the car behind you, STOP, and inform the Marshals." So, here is another failure to follow convoy procedure: watch out for each other. If the driver before him noticed earlier and informed the Marshals, rescue would have been faster.
[quote=OxanaLu;31921]
Lesson 5. "The minimum and the maximum required distance is equally important. Failure to follow this rule will destroy the Buddy system and will lead you to trouble"
[/quote]
The Buddy system is a more advanced configuration and is used primarily in intermediate drives. It places much more responsibility on the two buddies to manage themselves and therefore they have to have a much higher skill level. In a newbie drive, unless specifically designated by the leading Marshal as following "buddy system" and that's for training purpose, the default configuration is the standard convoy. Having said that, spacing in the convoy is very critical, and without it, the convoy isn't a convoy.
Most of the time, a driver is very focused on keeping an eye on the car infront, he forget about the car in the back. Proper Convoy discipline requires you to check your back frequently.
Now if you if we mix the two lessons together, you end up with the follwoing scenario: Driver B get stuck and can't inform anyone over the radio, Driver A (who is ahead of B in the convoy) notices that he can't see Driver B in the rear view mirror and the distance between them is large, so Driver A stops and informs the leading Marshal about the situation. Marshals stop the convoy, recover the missing driver, re-join the convoy and the trips can start again with everyone accounted for.
We at Almost4x4 take pride in our convoy organization, it provides an effecient, safe and enjoyable off-roading experience, every one should keep convoy disciple in mind, it is an important skill to master just like driving is.
regards to all...........
[quote=OxanaLu;31921]
Lesson 4. "The radio device situated in my car to inform the convoy members about troubles with my car and to keep me updated about all the situations outside of my car"
One of us got stuck, he didn't inform the Marshals immediately and couldn't inform us later because of the radio signal not being able to go through the high dunes and the distance between us. His car wasn't with us for at least 20 min and no-one had even realized it until the very last moment before he appeared again during break. Honestly speaking, I wouldn't like to be in his place.
Once you get stuck, immediately inform!
Once you lose the car behind you, immediately inform!
Once you see danger on the track or close to it, immediately inform!
[/quote]
Informing the marshals of any distress immediatly is the number one task when in distress, it saves everyone a lot of trouble, and this should not be forgotten or overlooked.
Now, in case that we take into account that the radio signal was blocked by the dunes, then there was no way that the stranded driver could relay his message to the rest. This could happen and Almost4x4 convoy system covers this eventuality. Please remember the breifing:" If you can't see the car behind you, STOP, and inform the Marshals." So, here is another failure to follow convoy procedure: watch out for each other. If the driver before him noticed earlier and informed the Marshals, rescue would have been faster.
[quote=OxanaLu;31921]
Lesson 5. "The minimum and the maximum required distance is equally important. Failure to follow this rule will destroy the Buddy system and will lead you to trouble"
[/quote]
The Buddy system is a more advanced configuration and is used primarily in intermediate drives. It places much more responsibility on the two buddies to manage themselves and therefore they have to have a much higher skill level. In a newbie drive, unless specifically designated by the leading Marshal as following "buddy system" and that's for training purpose, the default configuration is the standard convoy. Having said that, spacing in the convoy is very critical, and without it, the convoy isn't a convoy.
Most of the time, a driver is very focused on keeping an eye on the car infront, he forget about the car in the back. Proper Convoy discipline requires you to check your back frequently.
Now if you if we mix the two lessons together, you end up with the follwoing scenario: Driver B get stuck and can't inform anyone over the radio, Driver A (who is ahead of B in the convoy) notices that he can't see Driver B in the rear view mirror and the distance between them is large, so Driver A stops and informs the leading Marshal about the situation. Marshals stop the convoy, recover the missing driver, re-join the convoy and the trips can start again with everyone accounted for.
We at Almost4x4 take pride in our convoy organization, it provides an effecient, safe and enjoyable off-roading experience, every one should keep convoy disciple in mind, it is an important skill to master just like driving is.
regards to all...........
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strawb
- Golden Member
- Posts: 0
- Joined: Sun Jan 22, 2012 3:03 pm
[quote=OxanaLu;31921]I was in the 5+ convoy lead by Strawb and with two Guardian Angels Zorro and Yogybear.
Because "Newbies +" pretend to act as "Intermediates -", Strawb decided to show us the difference between levels. The high speed on the soft dunes with the loads of crossing crests for the convoy, which was settled up in a free style.
Our trip started with the words: " Now you're smiling, but you won't see these smiles today again" ... and the rest of the story was a disaster. Don't get me wrong, we LOVED it! However when I analyzed every single part of the trip separately, I have started to feel so ashamed by my consequences.
I'll share it with you in my own way, like I always do. (Don't mind the counting, lessons 1-3 were on my previous trip.)
Lesson 4. "The radio device situated in my car to inform the convoy members about troubles with my car and to keep me updated about all the situations outside of my car"
One of us got stuck, he didn't inform the Marshals immediately and couldn't inform us later because of the radio signal not being able to go through the high dunes and the distance between us. His car wasn't with us for at least 20 min and no-one had even realized it until the very last moment before he appeared again during break. Honestly speaking, I wouldn't like to be in his place.
Once you get stuck, immediately inform!
Once you lose the car behind you, immediately inform!
Once you see danger on the track or close to it, immediately inform!
Here is the link to the Basic Principals of Communication with Two-Way Radio (guys, it is not boring and is a highly recommended short topic to read, if you haven't yet)
Lesson 5. "The minimum and the maximum required distance is equally important. Failure to follow this rule will destroy the Buddy system and will lead you to trouble"
Loads of times we ruined the convoy system by passing each other like children without thinking of ourselves and others' safeties. There were a couple of times when we were close to having an accident. We got stuck many times because of what we've done as the team. Also it was one of the reasons why many of us couldn't follow the leader's track and needed to ask Yogy for help....
I would like to express my deepest appreciation to Yogybear and Zorro for that patience while rescuing and collecting us, also to Strawb for keeping his promise and showing us that we still have a lot to learn.
Thanks Strawb, Yogybear, Zorro and our Friday team.
Love you all and hope to see you soon.
P.S. Dear Strawb, it was so exciting to be a second car after yours :like:[/quote]
very well said oxanalu
as we always mention in our trip reports and small chit chats ........
leave your EGO on tarmac or at home
safety is always the priority
never under estimate mother nature
driving in a convoy is NOT a competition
it is NOT bad to get stuck
The trips are tailored to suit the CONVOYS capacity which would mean that we will drive the level of the weakest driver ........ there are NO good or BAD offroad sessions as you can always learn from every outing ........
we are here to share the knowledge we have gained and we hope that you guys can learn from the little that we know ......
keep the sand flying and see you guys on the sand ....
cheers
Because "Newbies +" pretend to act as "Intermediates -", Strawb decided to show us the difference between levels. The high speed on the soft dunes with the loads of crossing crests for the convoy, which was settled up in a free style.
Our trip started with the words: " Now you're smiling, but you won't see these smiles today again" ... and the rest of the story was a disaster. Don't get me wrong, we LOVED it! However when I analyzed every single part of the trip separately, I have started to feel so ashamed by my consequences.
I'll share it with you in my own way, like I always do. (Don't mind the counting, lessons 1-3 were on my previous trip.)
Lesson 4. "The radio device situated in my car to inform the convoy members about troubles with my car and to keep me updated about all the situations outside of my car"
One of us got stuck, he didn't inform the Marshals immediately and couldn't inform us later because of the radio signal not being able to go through the high dunes and the distance between us. His car wasn't with us for at least 20 min and no-one had even realized it until the very last moment before he appeared again during break. Honestly speaking, I wouldn't like to be in his place.
Once you get stuck, immediately inform!
Once you lose the car behind you, immediately inform!
Once you see danger on the track or close to it, immediately inform!
Here is the link to the Basic Principals of Communication with Two-Way Radio (guys, it is not boring and is a highly recommended short topic to read, if you haven't yet)
Lesson 5. "The minimum and the maximum required distance is equally important. Failure to follow this rule will destroy the Buddy system and will lead you to trouble"
Loads of times we ruined the convoy system by passing each other like children without thinking of ourselves and others' safeties. There were a couple of times when we were close to having an accident. We got stuck many times because of what we've done as the team. Also it was one of the reasons why many of us couldn't follow the leader's track and needed to ask Yogy for help....
I would like to express my deepest appreciation to Yogybear and Zorro for that patience while rescuing and collecting us, also to Strawb for keeping his promise and showing us that we still have a lot to learn.
Thanks Strawb, Yogybear, Zorro and our Friday team.
Love you all and hope to see you soon.
P.S. Dear Strawb, it was so exciting to be a second car after yours :like:[/quote]
very well said oxanalu
as we always mention in our trip reports and small chit chats ........
leave your EGO on tarmac or at home
safety is always the priority
never under estimate mother nature
driving in a convoy is NOT a competition
it is NOT bad to get stuck
The trips are tailored to suit the CONVOYS capacity which would mean that we will drive the level of the weakest driver ........ there are NO good or BAD offroad sessions as you can always learn from every outing ........
we are here to share the knowledge we have gained and we hope that you guys can learn from the little that we know ......
keep the sand flying and see you guys on the sand ....
cheers
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Green Giant
- Intermediate
- Posts: 0
- Joined: Sat Jan 12, 2013 9:19 am
Thanks Strawb, Yoghybear and Zorro for a very good first drive of 2014. From the start at the briefing Strawb said that the level would be hard and fast and would challenge all drivers, which it certainly did. Strawb placed me as second lead from the start which was a great experience - For the first time I had 3 passengers hence the Green Giant's handling was different and its capabilities were pushed to the edge. I suffered on the first long climb, failing to reach the crest hence had to return to the bottom, to discover the following vehicles in some disarray as the approach was quite confined and had a small bowl, hence the ability to get enough momentum for a second attempt was not possible. Oxana Lu's comments above are very pertinent - proper use of the Radio when suffering is very important as well as maintaining contact between the drivers in convoy. It is a skill I have to develop as driving a manual you need a hands free kit for the radio!!
One important piece of advice from Strawb later in the drive, whilst waiting for rescues behind, was use of the power band when climbing dunes - the tendency to plant the right foot to the floor when losing speed is not always the best thing to do. So knowing your car, what it is (and isnt!) capable of and, most importantly, knowing your own skills (and limitations) when navigating the dunes will make us all better drivers and for fellow Newbies+ to earn the second star. A classic case in point for us on this drive - I always thought that Caprihorse's Pathfinder was unstoppable and could go anywhere - in different hands and different experience level shows that it is the driver, not the car, that allows us to conquer the deserts of the region. Hats off to Oxana Lu and all the other drivers who I think all learnt valuable lessons this week.
Thanks again Strawb, Yoghy and Zorro for the drive and looking forward to the next drive - with less passengers, a bigger smile and sand in my veins once again!!
One important piece of advice from Strawb later in the drive, whilst waiting for rescues behind, was use of the power band when climbing dunes - the tendency to plant the right foot to the floor when losing speed is not always the best thing to do. So knowing your car, what it is (and isnt!) capable of and, most importantly, knowing your own skills (and limitations) when navigating the dunes will make us all better drivers and for fellow Newbies+ to earn the second star. A classic case in point for us on this drive - I always thought that Caprihorse's Pathfinder was unstoppable and could go anywhere - in different hands and different experience level shows that it is the driver, not the car, that allows us to conquer the deserts of the region. Hats off to Oxana Lu and all the other drivers who I think all learnt valuable lessons this week.
Thanks again Strawb, Yoghy and Zorro for the drive and looking forward to the next drive - with less passengers, a bigger smile and sand in my veins once again!!
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caprihorse
- Golden Member
- Posts: 10
- Joined: Tue Nov 16, 2010 1:23 am
- Location: Bratislava, Slovakia
- Been thanked: 3 times
- Contact:
Reading all these long trip reports from members and also responses from senior drivers and mainly reading between the lines, leaves in my mind an impression that something went wrong on the standard trip. Such trips, in our homeland, are always taken as standard routine. Apparently at this trip the routine killed the purpose.
Maybe Newbies didn't listen carefully the briefing, maybe some other factors were not taken into the consideration, to calm down the situation.
At following see my lecturing:
1. Drivers should watch 2-3 cars ahead, not only the bumper in front.
2. Watching the cars, you can judge if the car can make the climb.
3. If you have in front of you small and weak car loaded with tourists, you can expect any time that "he will not make it"
4. So why the hell are you going inside? Just to create mess?
5. If you see somebody in a trouble, doing rounds or returning and you don't hear anything on the radio, so why you don't report him to the Marshals? Maybe at that situation affected Newbie in his extreme panicking already forgot the purpose of the radio. Radio silence is in most cases based on distance, 3-4 km, not on the size of the dunes. It's Sharjha, not Liwa.
In many trips similar to this we called during the trip for additional briefing, called technical or safety or whatever, just to bring everyone back to the ground, to avoid over excitements.
Our main target on any trip is safe fun for all, so if you feel uncomfortable, you can speak to the nearest Marshal and freely express your opinion. At trip reports it's a bit late.
Newbies, please remember that number of drives, recorded in the system, doesn't make you the real off-roader, but only cool and fast decision making, which you can gain only with the years of driving.
Maybe Newbies didn't listen carefully the briefing, maybe some other factors were not taken into the consideration, to calm down the situation.
At following see my lecturing:
1. Drivers should watch 2-3 cars ahead, not only the bumper in front.
2. Watching the cars, you can judge if the car can make the climb.
3. If you have in front of you small and weak car loaded with tourists, you can expect any time that "he will not make it"
4. So why the hell are you going inside? Just to create mess?
5. If you see somebody in a trouble, doing rounds or returning and you don't hear anything on the radio, so why you don't report him to the Marshals? Maybe at that situation affected Newbie in his extreme panicking already forgot the purpose of the radio. Radio silence is in most cases based on distance, 3-4 km, not on the size of the dunes. It's Sharjha, not Liwa.
In many trips similar to this we called during the trip for additional briefing, called technical or safety or whatever, just to bring everyone back to the ground, to avoid over excitements.
Our main target on any trip is safe fun for all, so if you feel uncomfortable, you can speak to the nearest Marshal and freely express your opinion. At trip reports it's a bit late.
Newbies, please remember that number of drives, recorded in the system, doesn't make you the real off-roader, but only cool and fast decision making, which you can gain only with the years of driving.
