Seen in Dubizzle - Lenso Rims
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Darshan
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[quote=Abu Jimmy;18441]The less size of the rim , the more high Tyre can be installed , more high ( tall ) tyres will give longer tyre print when deflated , the longer print you have the better traction you will gain in sand . fixing big tyres ( wider and higher ) on big rims will increase the diameter of the whole wheel , which will damage the fenders , or at least the tyres will keep rubbing the fender arch constantly while off roading which will result loss of speed , fender arch damage and tyres damage on the long term .
the best solution is to maintain the original wheel diameter by fixing bigger tyres on smaller rims , especially on stock ( not lifted ) vehicles .[/quote]
Let me play the devil's advocate so as to understand whether this is actually the right thing to do.
Some questions that come to mind:
When such taller tyres are deflated, wont it be riding on its sidewalls to give more footprint and thus more traction? As you will agree, riding on the sidewalls has its effects. This question will be invalid if you meant higher AND wider than stock tyres. But then in that case you will be using an upsize tyre width wise. Which may or may not cause the noises that Capri is reffering to, depending on the width of the tyre and the model of your vehicle.
I own a set of wheels in 17 inch and another set 16 inchers TRD. I have also tried a 15 inch borrowed from a friend. On my FJ (2011) I felt that while 15 inchers with wider and taller tyres gave me good traction and awesome torque, (awesome torque because of the smaller diameter when deflated) It lacked the momentum when i had to do extra long climbs at higher speeds. I could play with the gears, but i felt that the H4 on L(1st) had too much power but not enough momentum (similar to shifting to l4 and 3rd gear) and the H4 2nd gear didnt have enough juice even for smaller dunes.
The 17 inchers(stock size) were good match to my gears overall but lacked torque in stop and climb type of situations. I then switched to 16 inchers. I am not happy with the match yet but it is better now in the above said conditions. If they invent a 16 and a half, i may buy one :011:
So case in point is that understand your car and its right upsizes before upgrading tyres/rims. Jeeps usually have more lower end torque than FJs, but it cannot pick up speeds of that of an FJ. Reducing the rim size aggravates the problem as this further reduces the diameter of your tyre when deflated.So you will have even more torque but lesser speed in a given gear. Again you can just upshift to the next gear, but my experience upshifting wasn't all that good.
Think twice if you are going smaller,bigger, wider, higher etc, what is it that you want to acheive? Understand your car and then pull the trigger. I drove on stock tyres till it wore out, so for most types of drives stock should be good enough.
the best solution is to maintain the original wheel diameter by fixing bigger tyres on smaller rims , especially on stock ( not lifted ) vehicles .[/quote]
Let me play the devil's advocate so as to understand whether this is actually the right thing to do.
Some questions that come to mind:
When such taller tyres are deflated, wont it be riding on its sidewalls to give more footprint and thus more traction? As you will agree, riding on the sidewalls has its effects. This question will be invalid if you meant higher AND wider than stock tyres. But then in that case you will be using an upsize tyre width wise. Which may or may not cause the noises that Capri is reffering to, depending on the width of the tyre and the model of your vehicle.
I own a set of wheels in 17 inch and another set 16 inchers TRD. I have also tried a 15 inch borrowed from a friend. On my FJ (2011) I felt that while 15 inchers with wider and taller tyres gave me good traction and awesome torque, (awesome torque because of the smaller diameter when deflated) It lacked the momentum when i had to do extra long climbs at higher speeds. I could play with the gears, but i felt that the H4 on L(1st) had too much power but not enough momentum (similar to shifting to l4 and 3rd gear) and the H4 2nd gear didnt have enough juice even for smaller dunes.
The 17 inchers(stock size) were good match to my gears overall but lacked torque in stop and climb type of situations. I then switched to 16 inchers. I am not happy with the match yet but it is better now in the above said conditions. If they invent a 16 and a half, i may buy one :011:
So case in point is that understand your car and its right upsizes before upgrading tyres/rims. Jeeps usually have more lower end torque than FJs, but it cannot pick up speeds of that of an FJ. Reducing the rim size aggravates the problem as this further reduces the diameter of your tyre when deflated.So you will have even more torque but lesser speed in a given gear. Again you can just upshift to the next gear, but my experience upshifting wasn't all that good.
Think twice if you are going smaller,bigger, wider, higher etc, what is it that you want to acheive? Understand your car and then pull the trigger. I drove on stock tyres till it wore out, so for most types of drives stock should be good enough.
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Sarookh
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- Joined: Wed Dec 28, 2011 6:07 pm
[quote=Abu Jimmy;18441]The less size of the rim , the more high Tyre can be installed , more high ( tall ) tyres will give longer tyre print when deflated , the longer print you have the better traction you will gain in sand . fixing big tyres ( wider and higher ) on big rims will increase the diameter of the whole wheel , which will damage the fenders , or at least the tyres will keep rubbing the fender arch constantly while off roading which will result loss of speed , fender arch damage and tyres damage on the long term .
the best solution is to maintain the original wheel diameter by fixing bigger tyres on smaller rims , especially on stock ( not lifted ) vehicles .[/quote]
[quote=caprihorse;18461]I agree with Abu Jimmy's arguments. As the car manufacturer designs the fender area space for certain size, e.g. 16", it would not be adviceble to place there 20" tyres. However if anybody wants to make it, I have no objection. He will just hear some noise all the time, by touching tyres the fenders. To avoid this logically he would need go for lifting at least 4", which is not safe at all.[/quote]
It make sense, I have the Icon suspension which gave me 1” lift and my 17” rims are fitted with 285/70 R17 tires and sometimes when driving on very sharp angles the tires touches the fenders. Thanks for the info you now have gave me something to take in consideration specially that am about to change the tires and go even bigger 315/70R17.
the best solution is to maintain the original wheel diameter by fixing bigger tyres on smaller rims , especially on stock ( not lifted ) vehicles .[/quote]
[quote=caprihorse;18461]I agree with Abu Jimmy's arguments. As the car manufacturer designs the fender area space for certain size, e.g. 16", it would not be adviceble to place there 20" tyres. However if anybody wants to make it, I have no objection. He will just hear some noise all the time, by touching tyres the fenders. To avoid this logically he would need go for lifting at least 4", which is not safe at all.[/quote]
It make sense, I have the Icon suspension which gave me 1” lift and my 17” rims are fitted with 285/70 R17 tires and sometimes when driving on very sharp angles the tires touches the fenders. Thanks for the info you now have gave me something to take in consideration specially that am about to change the tires and go even bigger 315/70R17.
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Sarookh
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[quote=Darshan;18481]The 315s will look awesome! But then aside from rubbing issues you will be the new pop star![/quote]
Am not really worried about the tire popping as i have an interim wall in the rim itself which prevent the popping :015: am actually concerned about the rubbing more than the rest.
Am not really worried about the tire popping as i have an interim wall in the rim itself which prevent the popping :015: am actually concerned about the rubbing more than the rest.
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Darshan
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- Joined: Wed Jan 04, 2012 8:51 am
Interim Wall?? That is something new :011: And i thought i heard it all. I dont reccomend you do it, but Incase you decide to go for those tyres, do let me know how it went. Maybe we'll learn something new.
Do you have adjustable upper arms with your existing setup? Where does it rub now? Is it towards the front of the fender? or Is it at the rear bottom of the fender? Does it happen only when turning and when the springs are compressed? Does it happen only when deflated?
Last but big question...Do you have spacers on the front wheels? Answer these questions and we may find a way to cure your rubbing. With 315 tyres, i am not sure.
Do you have adjustable upper arms with your existing setup? Where does it rub now? Is it towards the front of the fender? or Is it at the rear bottom of the fender? Does it happen only when turning and when the springs are compressed? Does it happen only when deflated?
Last but big question...Do you have spacers on the front wheels? Answer these questions and we may find a way to cure your rubbing. With 315 tyres, i am not sure.
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Sarookh
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- Joined: Wed Dec 28, 2011 6:07 pm
[quote=Darshan;18484]Interim Wall?? That is something new :011: And i thought i heard it all. I dont reccomend you do it, but Incase you decide to go for those tyres, do let me know how it went. Maybe we'll learn something new.
Do you have adjustable upper arms with your existing setup? Where does it rub now? Is it towards the front of the fender? or Is it at the rear bottom of the fender? Does it happen only when turning and when the springs are compressed? Does it happen only when deflated?
Last but big question...Do you have spacers on the front wheels? Answer these questions and we may find a way to cure your rubbing. With 315 tyres, i am not sure.[/quote]
"Interim Wall?? That is something new" yes, it's on both sides of the rim and part of it, it's like a big washer which prevent the tire to go out of its place - i don’t have a picture if i find any i will share it.
"Do you have adjustable upper arms with your existing setup" yes, Total Chaos upper arms.
"Where does it rub now? Is it towards the front of the fender? or Is it at the rear bottom of the fender?" neither, my current tires 285/70R17 rubs on the middle section of the fender from top, but when i tried the 315 it did touch the back and front side of the fender.
"Does it happen only when turning and when the springs are compressed? Does it happen only when deflated?" the current tires doesn't nothing on turning nor on deflation but only when the springs are extremely compressed (the 315 i guess it will).
"Do you have spacers on the front wheels?" no i don’t have spacers and they are not advisable but my rims has 52MM offset :027:
Do you have adjustable upper arms with your existing setup? Where does it rub now? Is it towards the front of the fender? or Is it at the rear bottom of the fender? Does it happen only when turning and when the springs are compressed? Does it happen only when deflated?
Last but big question...Do you have spacers on the front wheels? Answer these questions and we may find a way to cure your rubbing. With 315 tyres, i am not sure.[/quote]
"Interim Wall?? That is something new" yes, it's on both sides of the rim and part of it, it's like a big washer which prevent the tire to go out of its place - i don’t have a picture if i find any i will share it.
"Do you have adjustable upper arms with your existing setup" yes, Total Chaos upper arms.
"Where does it rub now? Is it towards the front of the fender? or Is it at the rear bottom of the fender?" neither, my current tires 285/70R17 rubs on the middle section of the fender from top, but when i tried the 315 it did touch the back and front side of the fender.
"Does it happen only when turning and when the springs are compressed? Does it happen only when deflated?" the current tires doesn't nothing on turning nor on deflation but only when the springs are extremely compressed (the 315 i guess it will).
"Do you have spacers on the front wheels?" no i don’t have spacers and they are not advisable but my rims has 52MM offset :027:
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Darshan
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- Joined: Wed Jan 04, 2012 8:51 am
[quote=Sarookh;18489]"Interim Wall?? That is something new" yes, it's on both sides of the rim and part of it, it's like a big washer which prevent the tire to go out of its place - i don’t have a picture if i find any i will share it.[/quote]
Do you mean bead locks?
[quote=Sarookh;18489]"Do you have adjustable upper arms with your existing setup" yes, Total Chaos upper arms.[/quote]
Excellent! is it with the optional heim pivot upgrade? The reason i am asking is because there are some stuff that you can do with upper arm adjustment to maximize wheel clearance at the body mount.
[quote=Sarookh;18489]"Where does it rub now? Is it towards the front of the fender? or Is it at the rear bottom of the fender?" neither, my current tires 285/70R17 rubs on the middle section of the fender from top, but when i tried the 315 it did touch the back and front side of the fender.[/quote]
Whoa! You will need to adjust your coilovers higher (i guess) since you said you are at 1 inch. Even then it is going to be a constant pain with the 315.
[quote=Sarookh;18489] "Does it happen only when turning and when the springs are compressed? Does it happen only when deflated?" the current tires doesn't nothing on turning nor on deflation but only when the springs are extremely compressed (the 315 i guess it will). [/quote]
If it is only touching the upper mid (slightly to the rear) position Then you can easily resolve it with larger bump stops. (Existing tyres)
[quote=Sarookh;18489]"Do you have spacers on the front wheels?" no i don’t have spacers and they are not advisable but my rims has 52MM offset :027:[/quote]
52mm is around 2 inches :022: Since you already have it, no point discussing it. Can you pls let me know your feed back on icons on the Thundra. Is it any good? Did you get the extended travel version? I would assume that it is a bit bouncy if you have it adjusted to just 1 inch.
Do you mean bead locks?
[quote=Sarookh;18489]"Do you have adjustable upper arms with your existing setup" yes, Total Chaos upper arms.[/quote]
Excellent! is it with the optional heim pivot upgrade? The reason i am asking is because there are some stuff that you can do with upper arm adjustment to maximize wheel clearance at the body mount.
[quote=Sarookh;18489]"Where does it rub now? Is it towards the front of the fender? or Is it at the rear bottom of the fender?" neither, my current tires 285/70R17 rubs on the middle section of the fender from top, but when i tried the 315 it did touch the back and front side of the fender.[/quote]
Whoa! You will need to adjust your coilovers higher (i guess) since you said you are at 1 inch. Even then it is going to be a constant pain with the 315.
[quote=Sarookh;18489] "Does it happen only when turning and when the springs are compressed? Does it happen only when deflated?" the current tires doesn't nothing on turning nor on deflation but only when the springs are extremely compressed (the 315 i guess it will). [/quote]
If it is only touching the upper mid (slightly to the rear) position Then you can easily resolve it with larger bump stops. (Existing tyres)
[quote=Sarookh;18489]"Do you have spacers on the front wheels?" no i don’t have spacers and they are not advisable but my rims has 52MM offset :027:[/quote]
52mm is around 2 inches :022: Since you already have it, no point discussing it. Can you pls let me know your feed back on icons on the Thundra. Is it any good? Did you get the extended travel version? I would assume that it is a bit bouncy if you have it adjusted to just 1 inch.
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Sarookh
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[quote=Darshan;18503]Do you mean bead locks?
Excellent! is it with the optional heim pivot upgrade? The reason i am asking is because there are some stuff that you can do with upper arm adjustment to maximize wheel clearance at the body mount.
Whoa! You will need to adjust your coilovers higher (i guess) since you said you are at 1 inch. Even then it is going to be a constant pain with the 315.
If it is only touching the upper mid (slightly to the rear) position Then you can easily resolve it with larger bump stops. (Existing tyres)
52mm is around 2 inches :022: Since you already have it, no point discussing it. Can you pls let me know your feed back on icons on the Thundra. Is it any good? Did you get the extended travel version? I would assume that it is a bit bouncy if you have it adjusted to just 1 inch.[/quote]
"Do you mean bead locks?" not really but it has the same function, i found some pictures check the below link.
http://i1274.photobucket.com/albums/y42 ... washer.jpg
"Excellent! is it with the optional heim pivot upgrade? The reason i am asking is because there are some stuff that you can do with upper arm adjustment to maximize wheel clearance at the body mount." noap i have this:
http://i1274.photobucket.com/albums/y42 ... erarms.jpg
"Whoa! You will need to adjust your coilovers higher (i guess) since you said you are at 1 inch. Even then it is going to be a constant pain with the 315." or "If it is only touching the upper mid (slightly to the rear) position Then you can easily resolve it with larger bump stops. (Existing tyres)"
if i go higher or enlarge the bump stop, i will lose further travel and that's not what i want.
"Can you pls let me know your feed back on icons on the Thundra. Is it any good? Did you get the extended travel version? I would assume that it is a bit bouncy if you have it adjusted to just 1 inch." i have got these;
http://i1274.photobucket.com/albums/y42 ... s/Icon.jpg
Generally speaking yeah they are good. i love speeding up on flat areas, the ride is very comfortable and stable and when driving on dunes they are smooth going up and down, but when driving on tarmac it's bit shaky.
Excellent! is it with the optional heim pivot upgrade? The reason i am asking is because there are some stuff that you can do with upper arm adjustment to maximize wheel clearance at the body mount.
Whoa! You will need to adjust your coilovers higher (i guess) since you said you are at 1 inch. Even then it is going to be a constant pain with the 315.
If it is only touching the upper mid (slightly to the rear) position Then you can easily resolve it with larger bump stops. (Existing tyres)
52mm is around 2 inches :022: Since you already have it, no point discussing it. Can you pls let me know your feed back on icons on the Thundra. Is it any good? Did you get the extended travel version? I would assume that it is a bit bouncy if you have it adjusted to just 1 inch.[/quote]
"Do you mean bead locks?" not really but it has the same function, i found some pictures check the below link.
http://i1274.photobucket.com/albums/y42 ... washer.jpg
"Excellent! is it with the optional heim pivot upgrade? The reason i am asking is because there are some stuff that you can do with upper arm adjustment to maximize wheel clearance at the body mount." noap i have this:
http://i1274.photobucket.com/albums/y42 ... erarms.jpg
"Whoa! You will need to adjust your coilovers higher (i guess) since you said you are at 1 inch. Even then it is going to be a constant pain with the 315." or "If it is only touching the upper mid (slightly to the rear) position Then you can easily resolve it with larger bump stops. (Existing tyres)"
if i go higher or enlarge the bump stop, i will lose further travel and that's not what i want.
"Can you pls let me know your feed back on icons on the Thundra. Is it any good? Did you get the extended travel version? I would assume that it is a bit bouncy if you have it adjusted to just 1 inch." i have got these;
http://i1274.photobucket.com/albums/y42 ... s/Icon.jpg
Generally speaking yeah they are good. i love speeding up on flat areas, the ride is very comfortable and stable and when driving on dunes they are smooth going up and down, but when driving on tarmac it's bit shaky.
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Darshan
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- Joined: Wed Jan 04, 2012 8:51 am
Thank you Sarookh for the info, especially on the interim wall thing. Never came across that one before. I am sure it is a simple but briliant idea.
"if i go higher or enlarge the bump stop, i will lose further travel and that's not what i want"
You will not lose any travel by adjusting it higher or by opting for bump stops. You are not limiting downward travel, you are only limiting as to how much your springs can compress. So at the end of the compression cycle you either hit your lower arms on the bumb stops if you have it or it travels updward even more (a few more mm) and then your wheels hit your fenders.
The bump stops itself compresses to absorb the impact of the lower arms. Try it, i am sure you will happy that you did.
By the way, you have made a good choice on the suspension kit. What do you mean it is shaky on the road? Is there a slight up and down kind of bounce? Or does the steering or the whole vehicle really shakes like you have one of the wheels out of balance?
"if i go higher or enlarge the bump stop, i will lose further travel and that's not what i want"
You will not lose any travel by adjusting it higher or by opting for bump stops. You are not limiting downward travel, you are only limiting as to how much your springs can compress. So at the end of the compression cycle you either hit your lower arms on the bumb stops if you have it or it travels updward even more (a few more mm) and then your wheels hit your fenders.
The bump stops itself compresses to absorb the impact of the lower arms. Try it, i am sure you will happy that you did.
By the way, you have made a good choice on the suspension kit. What do you mean it is shaky on the road? Is there a slight up and down kind of bounce? Or does the steering or the whole vehicle really shakes like you have one of the wheels out of balance?
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Sarookh
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- Joined: Wed Dec 28, 2011 6:07 pm
[quote=Darshan;18541]Thank you Sarookh for the info, especially on the interim wall thing. Never came across that one before. I am sure it is a simple but briliant idea.
"if i go higher or enlarge the bump stop, i will lose further travel and that's not what i want"
You will not lose any travel by adjusting it higher or by opting for bump stops. You are not limiting downward travel, you are only limiting as to how much your springs can compress. So at the end of the compression cycle you either hit your lower arms on the bumb stops if you have it or it travels updward even more (a few more mm) and then your wheels hit your fenders.
The bump stops itself compresses to absorb the impact of the lower arms. Try it, i am sure you will happy that you did.
By the way, you have made a good choice on the suspension kit. What do you mean it is shaky on the road? Is there a slight up and down kind of bounce? Or does the steering or the whole vehicle really shakes like you have one of the wheels out of balance?[/quote]
Thanks Darshan will look it further.
As for the shaky thing, it's the stiffness difference between the stock suspenssion and the Icon, eventually you get use to it :011:
"if i go higher or enlarge the bump stop, i will lose further travel and that's not what i want"
You will not lose any travel by adjusting it higher or by opting for bump stops. You are not limiting downward travel, you are only limiting as to how much your springs can compress. So at the end of the compression cycle you either hit your lower arms on the bumb stops if you have it or it travels updward even more (a few more mm) and then your wheels hit your fenders.
The bump stops itself compresses to absorb the impact of the lower arms. Try it, i am sure you will happy that you did.
By the way, you have made a good choice on the suspension kit. What do you mean it is shaky on the road? Is there a slight up and down kind of bounce? Or does the steering or the whole vehicle really shakes like you have one of the wheels out of balance?[/quote]
Thanks Darshan will look it further.
As for the shaky thing, it's the stiffness difference between the stock suspenssion and the Icon, eventually you get use to it :011:
